Re: [PHP-DEV] GitHub RFC workflow

  107754
November 4, 2019 12:33 pierre.php@gmail.com (Pierre Joye)
On Mon, Nov 4, 2019, 7:25 PM Joe Watkins <krakjoe@gmail.com> wrote:

> Afternoon, > > It should be clear that if we were in receipt of the kind of notice that > the Guardia sent to Github we would be extremely ill advised to ignore it, > regardless of the services we use, location of servers, or any other detail > you care to mention. The Guardia did not target Github because of their > affiliation with any state, country, or company but because of their > association with the contravention of the mentioned laws. >
It will go a bit off topic however let me take another real example. In Brunai, lgbt* lost all their rights. Promotions, many areas are affected if not all. one will break the law one or another by helping or doing some activities with "proven" LGBT. In 1930s and later, everything done to the Jews and other communities were followed the laws. What I seriously question, and this is a debate we sadly have to have these days, is our stand about all laws being promulgated in so many countries, laws that would raise revolt or more in most of my or your countries. The not so dramatic case in spain belongs to that as well. Btw. best,
> > Given the current context, in so many countries, commercial companies > are under huge pressures from governments. > > Making these things our problem doesn't make a whole lot of practical > sense. > > If we can't find practical reasons not to take advantage of what is being > offered, then I don't think we should put theoretical problems in the way > of progress. > > Cheers > Joe > > > On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 at 12:57, Pierre Joye php@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >> On Mon, Nov 4, 2019, 2:35 PM Joe Watkins <krakjoe@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Morning Pierre, >>> >>> > Sorry, no time to dig in our list of current active contributors and >>> define the risks for each of them. >>> >>> That's not what I asked for, I asked for a single concrete example where >>> this would have in fact been a problem. >>> >> >> Iran, Venezuela (not sure we have some in our contributors) f.e. cannot >> use github, depends on the case but either by citizenship or actual >> locations. By paid account, banned if based in either country. >> >> >> >>> I'm in Spain, and unaware of any access problems ... >>> >> >> >> https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/9kevn7/spain-and-github-are-blocking-an-app-that-helped-protesters-organize >> >> >> >>> Can you point me to a story explaining what you're talking about in >>> regards to Spain and South America ? >>> >> >> see above. >> >> >> >>> I'm not suggesting we ignore it, and I may in fact be ignorant of some >>> of the problems you are talking about. But, at bottom world politics and >>> political instability are not the problem of an open source project. >>> >>> I'm also not suggesting we move everything to github. I'm simply >>> questioning the "owning all content" mantra because it doesn't make as much >>> sense today as perhaps it once did. >>> >> >> Thanks you for the clarification. I am also all fine to use github. I >> however would like to ensure everyone can participate. >> >> Given the current context, in so many countries, commercial companies are >> under huge pressures from governments. >> >> Not many care about Iran or Venezuela but I feel like other communities >> could be next if things get worst, and not only nation based communities >> but religions, orientations, etc. Indeed not in UK or EU, but I am not sure >> at all about (too) many other countries. >> >>>
  107763
November 4, 2019 12:36 pierre.php@gmail.com (Pierre Joye)
sorry, bad roads and writing from my mobile. I am not driving but still ;-)

On Mon, Nov 4, 2019, 7:33 PM Pierre Joye php@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > On Mon, Nov 4, 2019, 7:25 PM Joe Watkins <krakjoe@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Afternoon, >> >> It should be clear that if we were in receipt of the kind of notice that >> the Guardia sent to Github we would be extremely ill advised to ignore it, >> regardless of the services we use, location of servers, or any other detail >> you care to mention. The Guardia did not target Github because of their >> affiliation with any state, country, or company but because of their >> association with the contravention of the mentioned laws. >> > > It will go a bit off topic however let me take another real example. > > In Brunai, lgbt* lost all their rights. Promotions, many areas are > affected if not all. one will break the law one or another by helping or > doing some activities with "proven" LGBT. >
-promotions
> In 1930s and later, everything done to the Jews and other communities were > followed the laws. >
+In Europe
> What I seriously question, and this is a debate we sadly have to have > these days, is our stand about all laws being promulgated in so many > countries, laws that would raise revolt or more in most of my or your > countries. > > The not so dramatic case in spain belongs to that as well. Btw. > > best, > > >> > Given the current context, in so many countries, commercial companies >> are under huge pressures from governments. >> >> Making these things our problem doesn't make a whole lot of practical >> sense. >> >> If we can't find practical reasons not to take advantage of what is being >> offered, then I don't think we should put theoretical problems in the way >> of progress. >> >> Cheers >> Joe >> >> >> On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 at 12:57, Pierre Joye php@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Nov 4, 2019, 2:35 PM Joe Watkins <krakjoe@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Morning Pierre, >>>> >>>> > Sorry, no time to dig in our list of current active contributors and >>>> define the risks for each of them. >>>> >>>> That's not what I asked for, I asked for a single concrete example >>>> where this would have in fact been a problem. >>>> >>> >>> Iran, Venezuela (not sure we have some in our contributors) f.e. cannot >>> use github, depends on the case but either by citizenship or actual >>> locations. By paid account, banned if based in either country. >>> >>> >>> >>>> I'm in Spain, and unaware of any access problems ... >>>> >>> >>> >>> https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/9kevn7/spain-and-github-are-blocking-an-app-that-helped-protesters-organize >>> >>> >>> >>>> Can you point me to a story explaining what you're talking about in >>>> regards to Spain and South America ? >>>> >>> >>> see above. >>> >>> >>> >>>> I'm not suggesting we ignore it, and I may in fact be ignorant of some >>>> of the problems you are talking about. But, at bottom world politics and >>>> political instability are not the problem of an open source project. >>>> >>>> I'm also not suggesting we move everything to github. I'm simply >>>> questioning the "owning all content" mantra because it doesn't make as much >>>> sense today as perhaps it once did. >>>> >>> >>> Thanks you for the clarification. I am also all fine to use github. I >>> however would like to ensure everyone can participate. >>> >>> Given the current context, in so many countries, commercial companies >>> are under huge pressures from governments. >>> >>> Not many care about Iran or Venezuela but I feel like other communities >>> could be next if things get worst, and not only nation based communities >>> but religions, orientations, etc. Indeed not in UK or EU, but I am not sure >>> at all about (too) many other countries. >>> >>>>