Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Deprecate Backtick Operator (V2)

  107387
October 6, 2019 19:35 zeev@php.net (Zeev Suraski)
On Fri, 4 Oct 2019 at 17:45 Mark Randall <marandall@php.net> wrote:

> Hi Internals, > > I put forward the following RFC "Deprecate Backtick Operator (V2)" for > discussion. >
Mark, all, I’m not sure what planetary alignment or moon phase triggered this recent compatibility-breaking onslaught, but it can’t go on like this. The fact we have to repeatedly work to *keep things working* is an unacceptable waste of too many people’s time. When you joined as contributors, you made an informed decision to join an existing project that isn’t starting from scratch. You’re ~20 years too late for these kinds of discussions. This ship has sailed so long ago it’s in the outskirts of the Milky Way by now. Contributions are welcome, but an endless stream of deprecation proposals that bring absolutely no new evidence to the table are not contributions. This RFC, indeed, falls squarely within that category. All, please focus on adding value to PHP instead of finding ways to break perfectly working code, even if it’s code you don’t particularly like. Zeev
  107388
October 7, 2019 05:52 kris.craig@gmail.com (Kris Craig)
On Sun, Oct 6, 2019 at 12:36 PM Zeev Suraski <zeev@php.net> wrote:

> On Fri, 4 Oct 2019 at 17:45 Mark Randall <marandall@php.net> wrote: > > > Hi Internals, > > > > I put forward the following RFC "Deprecate Backtick Operator (V2)" for > > discussion. > > > > > Mark, all, > > I’m not sure what planetary alignment or moon phase triggered this recent > compatibility-breaking onslaught, but it can’t go on like this. The fact > we have to repeatedly work to *keep things working* is an unacceptable > waste of too many people’s time. > > When you joined as contributors, you made an informed decision to join an > existing project that isn’t starting from scratch. You’re ~20 years too > late for these kinds of discussions. This ship has sailed so long ago it’s > in the outskirts of the Milky Way by now. Contributions are welcome, but > an endless stream of deprecation proposals that bring absolutely no new > evidence to the table are not contributions. This RFC, indeed, falls > squarely within that category. > > All, please focus on adding value to PHP instead of finding ways to break > perfectly working code, even if it’s code you don’t particularly like. > > Zeev >
We seem to be experiencing something of a philosophical clash with regard to deprecation. Perhaps we should attempt to establish some general guidelines for deprecation as a group? --Kris
  107389
October 7, 2019 06:22 smalyshev@gmail.com (Stanislav Malyshev)
Hi!

> We seem to be experiencing something of a philosophical clash with regard > to deprecation. Perhaps we should attempt to establish some general > guidelines for deprecation as a group?
I personally thought we had thom - no removing things unless there's a very good reason to. And yet, we have proposals for removing things for reasons like "it can be done in other ways" and "it requires me to read the manual to know about all options and variables". -- Stas Malyshev smalyshev@gmail.com
  107390
October 7, 2019 06:37 kjarli@gmail.com (Lynn)
On Mon, Oct 7, 2019, 08:22 Stanislav Malyshev <smalyshev@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi! > > > We seem to be experiencing something of a philosophical clash with regard > > to deprecation. Perhaps we should attempt to establish some general > > guidelines for deprecation as a group? > > I personally thought we had thom - no removing things unless there's a > very good reason to. And yet, we have proposals for removing things for > reasons like "it can be done in other ways" and "it requires me to read > the manual to know about all options and variables". > > > -- > Stas Malyshev > smalyshev@gmail.com > > -- > PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Hi, I think it's best to discuss this in a new thread. This way the RFC thread can stay about this RFC. Regards, Lynn van der Berg
  107393
October 7, 2019 07:58 marandall@php.net (Mark Randall)
On 07/10/2019 07:22, Stanislav Malyshev wrote:
> I personally thought we had thom - no removing things unless there's a > very good reason to.
Hi Stanislav, It has yet to be determined if there's a consensus on if the arguments given in favour of deprecation represent a good enough reason for the BC change. That is the purpose of the eventual vote, is it not? To allow the community to make that determination. Regardless of the outcome of this specific RFC, I am of the firm belief that it's important to be able to re-visit past choices every now and then. That applies to most things, not just PHP. -- Mark Randall