Re: [PHP-DEV] Changing fundamental language behaviors

This is only part of a thread. view whole thread
  107033
September 12, 2019 23:21 krakjoe@gmail.com (Joe Watkins)
Zeev,

I'm going to keep this really short and simple ...

You don't have the authority to make unilateral decisions for PHP,.

Nothing you are saying is going to have any effect, the people who actually
work on the language will merge whatever is voted in.

Cheers

On Fri, 13 Sep 2019, 00:17 Mike Schinkel, <mike@newclarity.net> wrote:

> > How many of those are actually developers? Because the way I understand > this numbers, "powering the web", that doesn't mean 34% are also > developers. It wouldn't surprise me if a big portion of these applications > could've also be a system written in another language, deployed, plugins > installed, added some themes and done, no PHP knowledge required. > > Most WordPress users are *not* programmers. > > Which is why introducing breaking changes to PHP will potentially affect > them so negatively; because they have no programmers on staff nor any skill > to fix the problem. Which means they will have to hire expensive > programmers — like me!!! — to fix a problem that from their perspective > they do not understand nor will even recognize a benefit when the code is > "fixed." > > Again, I am just presenting this perspective on this list. Those who vote > on this list will decide if breaking WordPress end-user's site bothers them > or not. > > > -Mike > > P.S. I am writing during a break at a WordPress conference, ironically. > >
  107035
September 12, 2019 23:45 zeev@zend.com (Zeev Suraski)
On 13 Sep 2019, at 2:21, Joe Watkins <krakjoe@gmail.com<mailto:krakjoe@gmail.com>> wrote:

Zeev,

I'm going to keep this really short and simple ...

I'll do the same.

You don't have the authority to make unilateral decisions for PHP,.

Neither does anybody else on this list.  Not even a plurality or a majority of folks on this list has the authority to apply the RFC process to something it was clearly not designed to handle.

Nothing you are saying is going to have any effect, the people who actually
work on the language will merge whatever is voted in.

Without getting to the technicalities, simply put, no.

Zeev
  107036
September 12, 2019 23:50 krakjoe@gmail.com (Joe Watkins)
Zeev,

> Without getting to the technicalities, simply put, no.
I'm not sure what you intend to do to stop it. Once again, I remind you that you don't have the authority that your behaviour communicates you have, at all. I wasn't starting a conversation, I was communicating facts, and I'm finished communicating with you. Cheers Joe On Fri, 13 Sep 2019 at 01:45, Zeev Suraski <zeev@zend.com> wrote:
> > > On 13 Sep 2019, at 2:21, Joe Watkins <krakjoe@gmail.com> wrote: > > Zeev, > > I'm going to keep this really short and simple ... > > > I'll do the same. > > You don't have the authority to make unilateral decisions for PHP,. > > > Neither does anybody else on this list. Not even a plurality or a > majority of folks on this list has the authority to apply the RFC process > to something it was clearly not designed to handle. > > Nothing you are saying is going to have any effect, the people who actually > work on the language will merge whatever is voted in. > > > Without getting to the technicalities, simply put, no. > > Zeev > >
  107037
September 12, 2019 23:56 vsuraski@gmail.com (Zeev Suraski)
> On 13 Sep 2019, at 2:50, Joe Watkins <krakjoe@gmail.com> wrote: > > Zeev, > > > Without getting to the technicalities, simply put, no. > > I'm not sure what you intend to do to stop it.
I sincerely hope reason will prevail and we won't have to find out (as I was hoping this part of the RFC won't be put up for a vote so that we wouldn't be in this mess to begin with). I am not looking forward to it - but we will not be depreciating fundamental language functionality regardless of the results of this or any other RFC - as RFCs have no mandate to do that. That is a statement of fact. Cheers, Zeev
  107054
September 13, 2019 08:19 brendt@stitcher.io (Brent)
Hello Zeev

Would you mind sharing with us why you specifically would be able to single handedly decide what gets merged into PHP and what not?

Kind regards
Brent
On 13 Sep 2019, 01:56 +0200, Zeev Suraski <vsuraski@gmail.com>, wrote:
> > > On 13 Sep 2019, at 2:50, Joe Watkins <krakjoe@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Zeev, > > > > > Without getting to the technicalities, simply put, no. > > > > I'm not sure what you intend to do to stop it. > > I sincerely hope reason will prevail and we won't have to find out (as I was hoping this part of the RFC won't be put up for a vote so that we wouldn't be in this mess to begin with). I am not looking forward to it - but we will not be depreciating fundamental language functionality regardless of the results of this or any other RFC - as RFCs have no mandate to do that. That is a statement of fact. > > Cheers, > > Zeev