Re: [PHP-DEV] Changing fundamental language behaviors

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  106991
September 12, 2019 17:54 chasepeeler@gmail.com (Chase Peeler)
On Thu, Sep 12, 2019 at 1:33 PM Matthew Brown <matthewmatthew@gmail.com>
wrote:

> What if Java suddenly said that all properties are suddenly private, and >> can only be accessed through getter/setter methods? >> > > If Java announced that the next major version was to make the change after > 95% of userland developers favoured it and over 2/3rds of their internals > team did, I'd think "huh ok I guess they have good reasons". > > I call shenanigans on that 95% number. Can you please back that up?
Personally, I don't think it's even possible to gauge userland support because the vast majority of userland developers aren't involved in the community at all. Those people don't even know this is being discussed, and probably won't until they start looking to upgrade to PHP 8.
> For 20 years people have developed code based on that feature. It was >> never considered an error, and often not even considered bad practice > > > You seem to be arguing against *ever* changing something that a majority > once thought was good, and fundamental to a given system. Lots of things > fall into that category - restricting voting to men, segregation, etc. > >>
-- Chase Peeler chasepeeler@gmail.com
  106993
September 12, 2019 17:58 oludonsexy@gmail.com (Olumide Samson)
On Thu, Sep 12, 2019 at 6:54 PM Chase Peeler <chasepeeler@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 12, 2019 at 1:33 PM Matthew Brown <matthewmatthew@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > What if Java suddenly said that all properties are suddenly private, and > >> can only be accessed through getter/setter methods? > >> > > > > If Java announced that the next major version was to make the change > after > > 95% of userland developers favoured it and over 2/3rds of their internals > > team did, I'd think "huh ok I guess they have good reasons". > > > > > I call shenanigans on that 95% number. Can you please back that up? > Personally, I don't think it's even possible to gauge userland > support because the vast majority of userland developers aren't involved in > the community at all. Those people don't even know this is being discussed, > and probably won't until they start looking to upgrade to PHP 8. > > I'm sure you need to read the message properly before replying, he ain't talking about PHP there...
Even 95% can be called anything(of users who are involved in the community, who knows, who are actual users, etc)
> > > For 20 years people have developed code based on that feature. It was > >> never considered an error, and often not even considered bad practice > > > > > > You seem to be arguing against *ever* changing something that a majority > > once thought was good, and fundamental to a given system. Lots of things > > fall into that category - restricting voting to men, segregation, etc. > > > >> > > -- > Chase Peeler > chasepeeler@gmail.com >
  106999
September 12, 2019 18:11 chasepeeler@gmail.com (Chase Peeler)
On Thu, Sep 12, 2019 at 1:58 PM Olumide Samson <oludonsexy@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > On Thu, Sep 12, 2019 at 6:54 PM Chase Peeler <chasepeeler@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> On Thu, Sep 12, 2019 at 1:33 PM Matthew Brown <matthewmatthew@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> > What if Java suddenly said that all properties are suddenly private, and >> >> can only be accessed through getter/setter methods? >> >> >> > >> > If Java announced that the next major version was to make the change >> after >> > 95% of userland developers favoured it and over 2/3rds of their >> internals >> > team did, I'd think "huh ok I guess they have good reasons". >> > >> > >> I call shenanigans on that 95% number. Can you please back that up? >> Personally, I don't think it's even possible to gauge userland >> support because the vast majority of userland developers aren't involved >> in >> the community at all. Those people don't even know this is being >> discussed, >> and probably won't until they start looking to upgrade to PHP 8. >> >> I'm sure you need to read the message properly before replying, he ain't > talking about PHP there... > > Even 95% can be called anything(of users who are involved in the > community, who knows, who are actual users, etc) > >> >> No, I think you misunderstood. I said "What if Java did XYZ" - The reply
was "If 95% of userland Java developers supported such a change..." That implies that 95% of userland PHP developers support the changes in the RFC. It wouldn't make sense to say "Well, if 95% of Java userland developers supported the change, then it would make sense, just like we should pass this RFC that 45% of PHP userland developers support"
> > For 20 years people have developed code based on that feature. It was >> >> never considered an error, and often not even considered bad practice >> > >> > >> > You seem to be arguing against *ever* changing something that a majority >> > once thought was good, and fundamental to a given system. Lots of things >> > fall into that category - restricting voting to men, segregation, etc. >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Chase Peeler >> chasepeeler@gmail.com >> >
-- Chase Peeler chasepeeler@gmail.com