Re: [PHP-DEV] print with newline

  104563
March 3, 2019 21:23 ryan.jentzsch@gmail.com (Ryan Jentzsch)
With semantic versioning b/c is allowed. For example version 8.0.0 vs 7.x.x
-- version 8.0.0 could include major breaking changes (since it is a major
version number change).  This allows a language to evolve and grow with the
needs of the users.
If PHP is so `rigid` that NO B/C are allowed (regardless of major version
changes) then PHP is overtly rigid and I predict it will ultimately become
extinct.

On Sun, Mar 3, 2019 at 3:34 AM Thomas Hruska <thruska@cubiclesoft.com>
wrote:

> On 3/3/2019 1:45 AM, Ryan Jentzsch wrote: > > Thanks for the explanation of b/c. I didn't know PHP is this rigid. Now I > > do... > > It has to be. Hundreds of millions of lines of code written in PHP run > on millions of servers globally every single day. The PHP devs take > their responsibilities seriously. > > If it were a smaller, less widely used language, BC changes would be > easier to make and have fewer consequences. > > -- > Thomas Hruska > CubicleSoft President > > I've got great, time saving software that you will find useful. > > http://cubiclesoft.com/ > > And once you find my software useful: > > http://cubiclesoft.com/donate/ >
  104564
March 3, 2019 21:35 kalle@php.net (Kalle Sommer Nielsen)
Hi

Den søn. 3. mar. 2019 kl. 23.24 skrev Ryan Jentzsch jentzsch@gmail.com>:
> > With semantic versioning b/c is allowed. For example version 8.0.0 vs 7.x..x > -- version 8.0.0 could include major breaking changes (since it is a major > version number change). This allows a language to evolve and grow with the > needs of the users. > If PHP is so `rigid` that NO B/C are allowed (regardless of major version > changes) then PHP is overtly rigid and I predict it will ultimately become > extinct.
One very important factor for breaking BC in PHP is also the gain if you are changing something so centric as the basic output constructs. I don't see changing echo/print to include a new line would ever pass due to this, however I could see (and possibly vote yes) to a new construct that did the exact same with a new line afterwards. These however are matters which should, by our process, be discussed through RFCs that weights pros/cons and the overall impact and demand. Like Johannes said; there haven't been a high enough demand for anyone to have voiced their opinion strongly, or at least not the 11 years I have been contributing myself or the two years I was an internals reader before that, that I can remember. I suggest the OP to start such a process, which can be done by registering a user on our wiki and following the instructions for write access to the RFC namespace. -- regards, Kalle Sommer Nielsen kalle@php.net
  104565
March 3, 2019 21:44 george.banyard@gmail.com ("G. P. B.")
On Sun, 3 Mar 2019 at 22:43, G. P. B. banyard@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 3 Mar 2019 at 22:24, Ryan Jentzsch jentzsch@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> With semantic versioning b/c is allowed. For example version 8.0.0 vs >> 7.x.x >> -- version 8.0.0 could include major breaking changes (since it is a major >> version number change). This allows a language to evolve and grow with >> the >> needs of the users. >> If PHP is so `rigid` that NO B/C are allowed (regardless of major version >> changes) then PHP is overtly rigid and I predict it will ultimately become >> extinct. >> > > Saying that no BC are allowed is already complete non sense as they have > been some with PHP 7 and there are already some for PHP 8 in the pipeline.. > > The difference is that this proposal is not suitable at all to PHP because > as it has already been said PHP is mostly used to output HTML to a browser > where a newline with /n does nothing. > It is also trivially implemented like Sara demonstrated. > > I do think that the fact that PHP is rigid at times makes it more suitable > than some other constantly changing languages/frameworks. > > My two cents. > > Best regards > > George P. Banyard >
Just realised sent it privately and not to the whole mailling list George P. Banyard On Sun, 3 Mar 2019 at 22:35, Kalle Sommer Nielsen <kalle@php.net> wrote:
> Hi > > Den søn. 3. mar. 2019 kl. 23.24 skrev Ryan Jentzsch < > ryan.jentzsch@gmail.com>: > > > > With semantic versioning b/c is allowed. For example version 8.0.0 vs > 7.x.x > > -- version 8.0.0 could include major breaking changes (since it is a > major > > version number change). This allows a language to evolve and grow with > the > > needs of the users. > > If PHP is so `rigid` that NO B/C are allowed (regardless of major version > > changes) then PHP is overtly rigid and I predict it will ultimately > become > > extinct. > > One very important factor for breaking BC in PHP is also the gain if > you are changing something so centric as the basic output constructs. > I don't see changing echo/print to include a new line would ever pass > due to this, however I could see (and possibly vote yes) to a new > construct that did the exact same with a new line afterwards. > > These however are matters which should, by our process, be discussed > through RFCs that weights pros/cons and the overall impact and demand. > Like Johannes said; there haven't been a high enough demand for anyone > to have voiced their opinion strongly, or at least not the 11 years I > have been contributing myself or the two years I was an internals > reader before that, that I can remember. > > I suggest the OP to start such a process, which can be done by > registering a user on our wiki and following the instructions for > write access to the RFC namespace. > > -- > regards, > > Kalle Sommer Nielsen > kalle@php.net > > -- > PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php > >